Category: Let's talk
Hi all
Blindisms or self stimulation are a word many of us have probably heard. Personally I like to use self stimulation, even if that word always makes my mind create a connection to masturbation.
Anyway, what I wanted to discuss is what you think about these behaviours in general and here I’m talking about behaviors who many blind people do, like rocking, waving their hands and so on.
Personally I used to do stuff like this a lot when I was little, especially rocking but as I grew older I found out even how difficult it is to talk to people while doing that, not to mention that it can feel like you’re hallucinating when you’re talking to someone who’s near you and they’re rocking like crazy.
Still my opinion that we as blind people along with the system of professionals tend to judge this kind of behavior much to harshly and attribute it to the blindness even if it’s something the average Joe can be in the habbit of doing, like for instance, biting your nails.
I’d really like to hear your thoughts and oppinions on this.
I call it stimming, and I stim quite a lot. In general, I look at things this way: If I'm not getting the results in life that I want - the job, the projects, the grades, the friends etc. - then I have to examine what I'm doing and change something. As things are now, I rock, and I have a few friends and a job and entertainment and all the things I would expect to have at this stage. I can tone it down sometimes if I really need to, but why eradicate it altogether? It serves a purpose. Without it the world sounds flat, and I find it stressful to behave like a statue. My very simple equation of stress and discomfort versus reward remains balanced when I continue to stim.
I learned pretty early on in life what to do and not do where so-called blindisms were concerned. And while I hate the term "sighted world," and while I also loathe how a lot of people tend to over-emphasize the sighted versus the blind, I have to acknowledge that we live primarily among the sighted, so we may want to be mindful of some habits that may set us apart if we allow them to do so. For instance, take rocking. I don't do it. At least, I don't do it while I'm standing still or sitting in a chair that doesn't rock. But I love rocking-chairs so I guess I "stim," as some might say, by rocking in an appropriate setting. And when I'm listening to a particularly good piece of music, my hand/fingers might tap in time to the song. But I figure blindness will set me enough apart from the general populace depending on people's attitudes, so I don't wanna encourage people giving me the it's-cuz-you're-blind bit if I can help it. Besides, I'm also gay, and there are times when I'm also gunna be circumspect about that.
Not to be a complete asshole. But as a partially sighted person, I can say with
all honesty. You guys don't have the slightest clue how weird this stuff looks.
sighted people who bite their nails as a nervous habit stick out, but blindisms
stick out on a magnitude 100 times worse. Its my honest belief that people who
do/did this kind of stuff in public inadvertently created the mental link between
blindness and learning disabilities many sighted people have.
Yeah, and when I walk around I'm swinging a 5-foot pole in front of me. No matter what I do I'll always stick out like a sore thumb.
This has been covered on other boards I believe. Anyway, my folks never let me do any of these things. Ever.
I completely agree with johndy and 570RMW1N6 here. I used to rock, as a very young child. Mom got me out of it by saying "Stevey Wonder gets paid for that", or simply calling me Stevey. It used to get on my nerves, so I stopped. And I thank The Gods that I did. Sticking your fingers in your eyes is another bad thing, and I have met several blind people whose hygiene habits were appalling. I pride myself in having a clean body, and I also turn my face toward people when speaking with them. My only bad habit (other than procrastination, which is unrelated to this) is biting my nails. Yes, I'm blind, and yes, I do walk with a cane. But those things shouldn't define me.
to add to what has already been said, there's a difference between people walking with a cane, and people rocking.
a cane is a mobility aid that helps people get around, and which, dare I say, even if some members of society have a problem with it, they're familiar with its purpose.
rocking, in the eyes of many, is something that, as was said, is often done when people don't know most others don't do it, or haven't been told why it's so frowned upon, as James illustrated so well.
as someone who used to rock, myself, I'm glad that I learned at an early age what that could mean as I went through life...and what that meant, wasn't anything good.
I used to "stim" when I was a child. I mostly rocked and eye-poked. My parents and grandparents broke me of these habits when I was a child. In looking back, I equate "blindisms" with picking one's nose - it is something that children do because they don't know how socially awkward it is. It is a parent or guardian's job to break such bad social habits. Sometimes when I am stressed or anxious, I catch myself doing the eye-poking thing, but it is something that, thankfully, I was taught not to do. Being blind, I have no idea how absolutely ridiculous I looked if I was rocking or walking around with my fingers in my eyes. I trust that my family had my best interest in mind, so thankfully I rarely do these things. I remember one time being with a blind friend who rocked. We were just standing there talking and he banged his head into mine because he was rocking. Its moments like that that I'm glad I don't stand and rock like a fool. Nowadays, the only kind of rocking I do is with my 6-string - something that is more socially acceptable I think.
Except maybe if you live in an apartment block, in which case you should of course continue rocking.
However I will say that the people I find are the most judgmental or stimming or whatever you call it are partially sighted people who are a lot around blind people. Fully sighted people tend to think of this as simply a part of being blind. Not to say that blind people should as a general rule head butt the person they're talking to or walk around with there fingers in their eyes all the time.
But it is my arm chair psychology theory that stimming is something that everyone does to some extent or another. Part of the reason why blind people do it more is I think, the fact that we don't have as much insentive to move our face around as sighted people, basically, we don't have to follow stuff with our eyes and so we move in some other way. Another part of course is the fact that congenitally blind people have not learned to behave based on what they sea around them.
In my case I think there's more to it. I do face people when I speak to them. It's useful for both of us, because for me it's hard to hear what the other person is saying when I'm in a crowded place, so facing them means their voice is directed at me. Being still is different. I usually expect the room (or myself depending on how you look at it) to be moving at least a little. Sighted people will often just lead me to a chair that rocks. Question: do any of you love swings? I mean like the chain swings designed for kids that can go very high but are sturdy enough to support most adults. I find that after about a half hour on one of those I don't rock very much.
I personally don't have these so called blindisms. I like to face people when I'm
having a conversation with them. I guess what I do is move my feet when I
hear music and my body when I perform, but that's just what I do. I don't
think it's a habbet.
As a very young person (preschool) I rocked and poked my eyes.
My folks imposed pretty harsh punishments to get me to stop.
So, when I went to the school for the blind, where I could have fit right in if I still did these things, I didn't do them.
However, I've always enjoyed a good rocking chair. (Is that a ratified blindism?)
I once had a discussion with a sighted person about what made a blind person look like a blind person, besides their eyes. She said when we were together I would sit with my feet on the floor and my hands in my lap, like I was on review; where she would sit sprawled out with her shoes off, etc.
I think blindisms are some folks way of sprawling out and taking their shoes off.
It's too bad it looks so weird to the rest of the world.
Bob
I had some vision growing up, so I have some idea of how a lot of this stuff translates visually. I remember being in preschool and early elementary school and seeing the other blind kids rocking and thinking "why do they do that?" I'm totally blind now, and the only problem I seem to have is with slouching. My theory on this is that it's easy to get into since I don't have any visual references to see that I'm not sitting up straight. I also have some back problems so sitting up straight is a problem anyway. I'm mindful of it when I'm in public, but it's very easy to let it slip without noticing until my neck starts to hurt. Also, my being a musician means that I'm constantly tapping out rhythms or fingering melodies that I happen to hear in my head and I've found that a lot of times people see this and think that I'm bored or something along those lines. At least I'm not as bad as some I've seen. haha I just use my fingertips, but I had a music director once who was primarily a hand percussionist and he would do what I do but with the whole palm of his hand.
Along time ago, growing up, I used to rock and poke my eyes; however, all of this was resolved with a rocking chair. I love these things; the perpetual motion of the chair carries my thoughts and mind to another world. I'm a drummer, so I use both hands to tap on desks; used to drive teachers crazy! But that's about all I do. I face people when they are talking, because htat's the American way.
For me, the simple fact of the matter is that we live in a sighted society which has a set of normalized behaviors. People shun the weird. If you want to engage in those abnormal behaviors like rocking and whatever, you're going to be considered weird by society, and that's just what it is. So if you want to march to the beat of your own drum, go for it, but good luck getting through that job interview. Good luck getting a date. the whole world isn't a disability advocacy convention. I guess I do judge those behaviors harshly because blind people already stick out and have a hard enough time as it is.
That being said, I typically gravitate towards the rocking chairs in the room. When we go to visit my boyfriend's parents, it's hard to go from rocking chair to still couch, especially if I'm doing something like writing that involves thinking. I'm not really a musician, but the movement is sort of an unconscious repetitive motion that frees my mind to think.
I never did the eye poking thing exactly, but as a kid, I would sit with my elbow propped on the chair arm or something, and a finger sort of resting against the upper bone of the socket, if that makes some weird sense.
I too have been sitting and standing with other blind people who rock. I just want to reach out and put a hand on their shoulder to make them stop.
When I was verry young, I used to be a rocker and a headshaker. The specialist school clearly saw that I didn't have any of the cognative disabilities of the majority of the other students, and so swiftly and effectively stopped me doing it. It's amazing what a firm hand on the back and a bit of social embarracement can do.
The truth is, it's because we don't have all of the sensory input the vision provides. I do
rock in the privacy of my own home which I, not the anti blindest apologists, pay for.
With all things, there is a balance. I was beat to break me of it. Although I control it in
appropriate situations, I have no sympathy for people who use violence to break kids of it
or anything else.
I will admit, before this site I had not heard of poking. But I am all for jabs, button hooks,
choke holds, and anything else to break the breakers. Then drop 'em off at Guitmo so as
they won't do anything else destructive.
Take it from one who knows: these are never satisfied. Maybe start with a blind person
rocking, but they finish with a retarded person who cannot do anything for themselves. I
am proud to say, that my daughter did never fall into such hands.
Perhaps, suitable and for these breakers, would be to be splayed on the gibbets before the
crowd they love to please. again, I say, these breakers are never satisfied. The only
answer is to exterminate, or removed permanently from society.
I agree. Those who harm children should be tortured and/or executed, depending on the severity of their crimes. There is no excuse for that sort of behaviour.
As for tapping my fingers, I do that, though rarely in public. Usually, it's a conscious thing, as I like to try out different rhythms, and there are times when I'll do it out of boredom. I also like rocking chairs. In fact, my recliners rock. At least, in one of those, it's appropriate to rock. *smile* I don't have a problem with keeping my head down (another blindism that I personally find very annoying in others, as it changes the direction of their voices), but I do have a slouching issue.
I also don't believe in embarrassment. It is easy to get a child not to do these.
I don't have them, because I was visual at one time, but understand how these things can be.
Never thought about the rocking chair. Sighted people use these all the time.
They also talk with there hands, and bite nails, so I don't guess these are blind only habits.
Tell me what stimming is? I don't know what this means related to the blind.
I married to one who talks with her hand. I know some sighted people find it annoying or
try to break their own habit. But when she does it, I find it graceful, beautiful, like a
dance. Almost like a bird dancing in the air with its wings.
It can be cute on a woman actually. Smile. I agree. Expressive as well.
I've always found it annoying in most circumstances. Words are just as good and they don't knock into things or make me think that you're waving your hands around because you can't control them.
They don't wave them around. Hard to explain. Something You'd have to see I guess.
Thank you Forereel for saying exactly what I was thinking. Sighted people bite their nails as well so how is that a blindism?
To be honest, the only difference I see in the way blind and sighted people act is in location. Some sighted people do these things but many of these behaviors are done at home. For example, I know someone who rocks and she is fully sighted with no cognitive disabilities. Would she rock during an interview? No, but when she is at home just relaxing she does and it's no big deal. Same goes for nail biting, rubbing the eyes etc. It's not the behavior that is weird, it's the location, some blind people do these things in public whereas many sighted people do them at home.
I used to have sight and I never thought that these behaviors stuck out more than someone biting their nails, shaking their foot etc. it was just a behavior that so and so did. I was really young though, older sighted people would probably think that you're doing it because you're blind which is what I think the problem is for most people. But it really all depends on how much you care about what others think of you. If you don't care, then just live your life and do whatever you want.
P.S. All of the musicians that I know tap their feet, hum along or show some type of movement when they hear music (some even tap or drum when they think of melodies). They do this both in public and at home, I don't think it's weird at all, it's just a music thing. Some people are annoyed by it but that's life.
I agree about music. But that's also a fairly normal and acceptable behaviour.
Agree with Wayne when it comes to women talking with their hands. when you're sitting
next to one while she is doing it, it's more like a wing dance. I don't understand people
getting upset with them for it, it's not like they're knocking things over. I knocked a lot
more stuff over as a restless, growing, antsy teenage boy.
YEs, that's true to a point. A lot of this comes down to location. I don't really
care what people do in their homes, or in public, as long as its not effecting me.
I think the biggest difference between what sighted and blind do in these
situations is the way the actions are carried out. Sighted people are somewhat
more conscious of the environment, and as a result they tone things down a
little, where as i've noticed a lot of blind people tend to do most of these things
in much more extreme ways. Much more movement, etc.
We've all met that normal person who just couldn't sit still for instance.
As an aside, I wasn't really thinking about tapping the feet or moving to music.
That's just what people do. I was just thinking about how some of these actions
tend to really clash with the environment around us.
I think a lot of it is that sighted people really have no clue just how much they learn through watching others. Us blind people can't do that. I'm not very comfortable around sighted people anymore for the simple reason that they can see every move I make, but I can't see them and I can barely hear them. Even my own family will walk in to my house and sneak my medicines out with them or steal my food or anything else they want. I was raised around some very sneaky sighted people. The result is I end up feeling like they have all the advantages. I remember a family member fussing at me when I was little because I wasn't sitting up straight. Someone else spoke up and asked her why she had the gall to fuss at me when she was lying diagonally on the couch with one foot on and one foot off of it. My point being, we can't see how these people relax. Some of us never did get very much in the way of body language coaching, which you'd think a school for the blind would have incorporated in to their system, but apparently it didn't.
As far as facing people and making some semblance of eye contact, this bugs me because I used to be very good at it. Now that my hearing is all lopsided, I can't tell where someone is quite a lot of the time. It's beyond mortifying when you reach your hand out to shake hands with someone, and they tap you on the back.
At Devilish Anthony, I agree. As I said, I have at least some memory of when I had vision so I have some idea of what people look like and how they communicate through body language. But spending several years in a school for the blind, I often heard the staff saying "don't do this or that" or "stop doing that, it doesn't look normal." But they never focused on what does look normal.
When I was little, I used to rock and do the eye-poking thing. My parents broke me of those around the time I entered public school, at about age 9. But I have to agree with a few others here... I still find sitting in a rocking chair extremely comfortable, and if there's one in the room I'm in, I tend to gravitate toward it.
You are only judged for these things because it helps the confirmation bias of the majority in their view of the minority. And when you do not do these things, it only helps the confirmation bias of the majority by allowing them to say how they saw someone else do those things and how great it is you aren't, e.g. the backhanded compliment.
This is not unique to the blind: Recently I was in buying my wife some flowers, and got the often-issued backhanded compliment of, "How great that you do that, so many men don't In fact," yada yada yada,, story time where they want to tell a stowy about someone they saw who didn't.
Whatever we choose to do, we are not rectifying anything, only managing people's confirmation bias as well as can be expected. They want to believe it, so they do believe it.
Most stereotypes are based in truth. It's better not to perpetuate them by our actions.
Yeah. Better to perpetuate lies by our actions.
No one wishes th tell me what spinning is?
My daughter used to do it, and she is not blind. Just spinning around and around and around. I will admit I was sometimes afraid she would make herself puke. But no, she just spun like that, then lay on the floor and watched the ceiling spin.
Far out.
I wonder if we're assuming a few things that might not be so realistic in all this talk of stereotypes.
1. if all people are stereotyped and if all people stereotype, how do you escape it if this is our goal.
2. We're assuming that the reason why blind people have been treated the way they have been for thousands of years is completely dependent on the behavior of blind people alone. Since this is true, there is an unspecified but known amount of difference we can hide that will give us acceptance.
3. If we believe the attitudes of society have everything to do with our behavior, this then disproves any idea that the reason why they treat us funny is not only out of fear of the dark, vulnerability, and mortality but the conclusion that they would be helpless and scared if they hypothetically went blind.
4. It is assumed we and only we have complete control over how we are treated and perceived. Since it is a sighted world, society is not obligated and in fact must not change. It is OK for them to believe we're all alike. It is OK for them to believe being different is wrong and bad. These ideas are unstoppable and will never change, so since it is not our world, we must accommodate society by protecting them from our freakish difference so they will never feel uncomfortable around us again. This is the truth. This is the reality that we must face up to, like it or not. There is no escape, no alternative, it is the only way things work, it is set in stone.
May someone be so kind as to explain and describe eye-poking in this instance. The few blind folks I have encountered in public never exhibited this type of blindism.
Reading the comments here calls up many graphic images featured in documentaries and commentary on Robert Berdella who would slowly insert his finger into his victims’ eyeballs and perform other interesting experiments with their peepers while they were still alive.
Is it similar to rubbing one’s tired eyes? Accidental poking is torturous and causes tears to flow, leaving the injured eye bloodshot. The tonometer used to measure intraocular pressure is painless only after the numbing agent has been administered, so it’s difficult to comprehend how eye-poking could be self-stimulating, except maybe masochistically.
Well, at home fine, poke your eyes, rock or spin, but if I have to go out to dinner with you, and she's standing in the place spinning, well. Smile.
eye poking is not the same thing as rubbing one's eyes, and people often aren't aware they're doing it, just as with rocking.
How can you not be aware you are "rubbing your eyes" or "rocking?"
Come on now.
Easy. You're thinking really, really hard. Haven't you ever been walking and thinking intently about something and then suddenly realized you've passed the turn you needed to make? You were walking without being exactly aware of what you were doing. It's similar.
Might pass a turn, but I know I'm walking.
If I rocked, I'd feel my body moving, and if I am touching my eyes, I can for sure feel that no matter how hard I'm thinking. Maybe you get in the comfort zone so to speak, so due to this, you are relaxed?
voyager is right. no, you cannot tell when you're rocking, or poking your eyes, because it comes second nature to you.
A good comparison is probably breathing. When you start thinking of breathing you become aware of it but it's something you don't normally have to think about. Same with rocking, humming and all that stuff.
Interesting. Please remember, all my questions are exactly that. I was not totally blind and still am not to a degree, so.
I can't imagine touching my eyes, or moving my body in any fashion and not knowing I was no matter how deeply I'm in thought.
To touch my eyes, I have to raise my hands. That alone would cause me to regester movement.
If I rock, I feel the movement, and due to having light perception, the room moves, that be distracting.
Now if I close my eyes, and I've done this to understand, I feel the air moving, and if there is sound, the sound moves.
Spinning would totally make me dizzy like Leo described his daughter laying on the floor. Lol
I went blind when I was three. If ever I had the inclination to "stim" it was trained out of me and I have never heard mention of my having any of these "blindisms". I don't rock, poke my eyes, walk with my head down or keep my eyes closed. If I try to do any of these things, just to see why other blind people might do it (in private mind you) I just can't do it. I have been around other blind people before, and I have found their rocking a touch disconcerting. Also, if they are speaking, it makes their voices sound a bit strange.
All this being said. Their are several health risks associated with eye poking, so their is reason not to do that.
But if the habbit is not harmful to you, just do it in private. Then you don't look strange to society, but you still get the stimulation you need. But perhaps this wouldn't help, I can honestly say I would not know.
If you work lots of hours in public that may not work, but if you spend most of your time at home then when you're out you can appear almost normal, if that's what you want. Those of us on the autism spectrum often rock, and for those of us who do, training us out of it is usually ineffective.
Well, I'd think someone that had to spend time with the public would learn to not do behaviors that might be off putting.
Let me give you an example.
If you eat out, you'd not want the person serving your food to pick there nose, or maybe suck there thumb while serving your food right?
Lets make the habit audio.
What if your co worker had the habit of clicking there tongue, or snapping there fingers all the time. Would =that sort of make you want them to not do that?
Even sighted people have habits they'd do at home, but not in public, so I don't guess this is something only the blind have a problem with and need to be excused of because they are blind?
Lol wayne! what's snapping? ... On a serious note, I personally think that child imbarrissment is not ok. Not now, not ever. And it's true, sighted people have horrible habbets when at home, even in public. I've witnessed them myself. I sometimes wonder if there are names for all these things sighted people do that we're unaware of? Because it seems to me that blindisms are a form of steriotypes, but sighted people also have habbets too. Ask around and you'll come to find it's true.
Wayne, if blind people are never told that such and such a behavior is abnormal according to society's standards, that likely wouldn't occur to them, no matter how much they're in public.
I admit to still spinning a bit sometimes when I've got music on.
It's better to be embarrassed, when young, by the gentle coaxing or even orders of a parent, than to be ridiculed, mocked, laughed at, or avoided when older, because you never learned something as simple as not performing a certain act in public.
Have any of you see blue collar people try to act real white collar and sophisticated, just to make sure nobody knows they are a plumber / carpenter / so on? All this talk on this thread reminds me of such as these. And they use all the same arguments.
This is all about making sure you don't disgrace the family, create some blemish on the public image, and so on.
Imagine what creative and wonderful things humans could do with all that energy that is thrown away concentrating on this or that mannerism they are trying to beat, all the while they are working, taking care of the kids, doing schoolwork, getting migraine headaches from this faux achievement that will not put them in the halls of fame for inventions or innovations.
I prefer to use my energy in solving problems for people, helping out in the community and so on. I have been that guy suffering the migraines and so on, fully steeped in concentration of image repair, doing no good at all to anybody anywhere while doing so.
I can't even begin to relate to that. Why would simply not doing something give you migraines? Regardless, I learned young, so I don't even think of it. I just don't do it. But I don't pretend to be something I'm not either. It's just that some things are meant for the public and other things are meant for the home. It's the same with clothing. I'm sure we all have things that are fine when sitting around the house or when working in the garden, that we simply wouldn't wear when going out.
Tiffanitsa, did I mention I'm well-liked in my community? Nobody's gonna be ostracized and homeless just because they did a little rocking in public.
I do have at least one friend, I'll call him Ron, who's sighted but we can discuss these types of things rationally and respectfully. He may bring up something he's seen me doing, maybe it's the way I'm eating or sitting, and we will discuss the pros and cons of modifying the behavior. And he knows these need to be concrete consequences, good or bad. For example the behavior might affect my health or my job. Just saying something about feeling embarrassed or trying to embarrass me has never worked and is a sign that the other person thinks I'm inferior, anyway.
Can most little kids experience embarrassment? I know I never could until I was much older, and even now it doesn't happen easily.
If you are never told, and I again would dislike the imbarrassment angle, I can understand.
But, when you know, you can't say people shouldn't think I have a mental disability because I rock, or stand up now and again and spin in the middle of a meeting, out at dinner, or during the teaching of a class.
To use another blunt example, you wouldn't scratch your crotch, and stick your fingers in your moth or smell them after when you itched in public, would you?
You turn around, or go to a discreet place to scratch if you itch bad enough.
I do think, that if public opinion doesn't matter, feel good as you are, but somethings are just private and other things are public.
Now, the funny thing I tease about some times is odd or unusual beheavior is thought to be crazy if you don't have money, but acentric if you do. Smile.
Can't spell that word, but....
I agree with Tiffanitsa. It's better to be cajoled, or even threatened, when you are young than allowed to do things as an adult that would look badly. Young children are forgiven for wetting or pooping their pants, but adults who do that are frowned upon.
Sometime ago, my granddaughter innocently asked what was wrong with picking her nose in public. Her dad and I explained that people didn't like seeing that sort of thing. She then asked about eating the results. Thought I was going to laugh myself to death, but she was serious, so we talked about germs, viruses, and other beasties that might be around.
Let's face it. We've all picked our noses in the privacy of our homes at times. But that's kind of like rocking, eye poking or spinning. You don't do it when you can be seen by others. If you're lucky, eventually you might break the habbit altogether. If not, no big deal.
Bob
While I'd rather not do this in public, I can't find any evidence that picking your nose and eating boogers is actually unhealthy.
I find it hard to believe some of the more gauche things mentioned on here actually happen. Reminds me of the skinheads I went to high school with who would swear to me that black people did a sordid set of socially unaccepted things, caliming I could not see them and so I would not know unless told, and it had to do with black people not being told.
Again, gauche, and quite unbelievable.
Spinning will make one dizzy, even if you did do roller coaster rides at one point, and nobody has done it in a meeting. Though, in a meeting, I have seen people lay off the poorest single moms in the company, which is all very socially acceptable of course. No shame in that: only shame in strange behaviors that most probably don't happen with any regular frequency.
Quite a caricatured we get drawn on this site. And, not unlike the caricatured drawn up by the skinheads or wish-they-were-skinheads I went to high school with, would draw up about the African Americans and Asians I used to run around with.
I find the parallels poignant and compelling.
I suppose all we need is a site like StormFront.org for, (or would it be against), the blind.
Trust me on this one: You need multiple and preferably unbiased, sources to determine something you cannot see. Fortunate for me, I did not believe these young fools about my Asian and black friends.
Picking your nose and eating it though kind of frowned upon and maybe rightly so is absolutely not unhealthy as this stuff is just going the same way all the rest of your nosyslime, that is down your throat and into the digestive system. That's not saying that in our society picking your nose in public eating the stuff and to boot letting out a good trumpet solo is good behavior.
I was lucky. I poked my eyes until teenage years. I was mainstreamed and sighted kids at school knew they could say to me "that looks horrible," and I was able to stop poking my eyes. Once I got my eyes removed, I had no more desire to poke at all.
Binary solo
that's good info, but I think I'll still refrain.
Of course, if I were really hungry .... nah, don't think so!
Bob
Bob
You get lost in a desert some time, you'll remember this :)
Noses carry staff infection and other nasties. When I took influenza training, they told us
the old way of covering the nose / mouth with the hand is wrong. When you sneeze or
cough, if you have no tissue to do it into, then cough or sneeze into the inside of your
elbow.
That should provide all the info one needs to know about the hazards of nasal excretion.
I still rock, but mostly when I'm nervous and am trying to calm myself, or when I'm listening to music. Like one of the previous posters, for me, the eye-poking stopped for me when the right eye was removed. I never did poke the left eye as much. not sure why eye-pressing is such a common habbit among those who are blind/VI. I was taught by my third-grade teacher to look at people when they speak to me; in fact, she told all of us this, and I was the only person in the class who was blind. Since then, I have always made a habbit of dropping whatever I'm doing most of the time, to turn my head and speak directly to the person so it lets them know I am paying attention. I find it very annoying and awkward when I have to talk to a person's back, especially when I know they are sighted. It leaves me wondering why they can't take a few minutes to give me the same courtesy I give to them in conversation. as for the slouching, good God did I get lectured about that by my TVI in elementary school. well, the putting-the-head-down bit, anyway. He never actually told me to sit up straighter. That was my dear old mother's doing. *sarcastic grin* I don't sit up straight, because quite frankly, it hurts. I blame many of my posture issues on the shitload of Braille books I had to haul back and forth throughout middle and high school to complete assignments. There were times i had to bring multiple bags of them home for different subjects, and now my spine is paying for it.
Okay, I'll stay out of deserts.
Bob
oh yes, and I do bite/pick at my nails, but as stated, sighted folks do that too, so I wouldn't necessarily call that a blindism
Look at me. I said look at me dammit! But your breath fucking reeks!
Here is something I believe is unique to the blind:
So we always have one hand occupied to the cane or the dog, so we have to manage how we carry things.
Even though I grew up with sighted people, and for natural population density reasons, most people I am around are sighted, I always find myself assuming they are also restricted. If they have what seems more bags than we could carry with one hand occupied, I offer to carry one without thinking, and so on. The elderly have asked if I thought they were too old to manage or something. The feminists have thought me to be a paternalastic pig or something. And others give odd responses. I finally realized this for what it was yesterday when helping my wife at the store.
In summary, we can only carry so many bags (unless it's a backpack) or boxes, because of using a cane or dog. We always have a hand occupied. And without thinking about this, I always just assume sighted people are more or less similarly restricted and offer to carry some of their load which for them comes off as weird or something of the aforementioned. I'm not talking carrying your guest's bags for them or something. If you're blind you know what I mean, no doubt.
Not as titillating as the earlier-mentioned items, but something whose source I realized for the first time yesterday.
It'll never make the cut, since it doesn't have the same titillating appeal, but I'm near certain I'm not the only one who makes similar assumptions without thinking that sighted people do in fact have one more free hand than we do available at their disposal when out and about.
I don't thinkI ever rocked, though I did shake m head and poke my eye. I stillcatch myself doing the latter when I'm alone. I don't know how much actual truth there is to this claim but I have occasionally heard that the eye poking can stimulate things int he eyes that don't get stimulated ordinarily because we can't see. Of course that could just be something of an urban legend.
@Leo: I've not done that, but what I have done occasionally was to say I've watched such-and-such program on the radio (sort of the inverse of the "listening to TV" overliteralization that's done by certain poor souls who overfocus on the lack of eyesight).
As to the thread in general: I've known sighted people who do at least a subset of what are considered "blindisms" if done by a blind person. Whilst the prevalence of these habits among the blind is statistically interesting, is there a possibility that blindness, as a kind of other, is more subject to observation? I mean—I can't speak for the rest of you, but I find myself trying to figure out the behavior of the sighted general public on a regular basis. For instance, I wonder if the person telling me it's OK to cross the street really thinks that, if they didn't do this, I'd stand there patiently at the corner, waiting for someone to give me permission to cross. And yet, if I ask this question, the assumption is that I'm offended, which in itself is an interesting reaction. ... Yeah, people are strange, strange creatures.
Right. That went a bit far afield.
Far afield, perhaps, but it makes perfect sense. Ask too many questions and people assume you're offended or being sarcastic. It's possible that they're just insecure. For instance, when I talk to a blind person who lives alone and is pretty much independent, I ask them questions about what they can do and how they do it. Not that I'm trying to find out if I'm above or beneath them, but to learn new ways of doing things. I've found that if I ask questions like, "Can you brown hamburger on the stove?" A lot of blind people will assume that I'm out to corner them and make them reveal their insufficiencies. In truth, I'm trying to start a conversation about how they'd drain the grease and the likes, so we can compare, but if they can't brown ground beef on the stove, then the rest of that convo is irrelevant. I guess I'm saying that my questions are sort of the building blocks, and perhaps I just go about it wrong.
Ed does something with his hands that he calls twizzling when he's seated
at the table for a meal.
He only seems to do it when we're together at home - he's fine when we're
out in social situations. I know that it annoys his Mom when she sees him
doing it and she shouts at him from time to time to stop. I sometimes tell
him "stop twizzling," he'll usually tell me "no," and continue to do it, just
because he likes to do it. For the most part, I just let him continue and
have learned to block it out of my stream of consciousness (until the next
time I am bothered to notice)... after all, he only does it when we're at
home and there's a lot worse that he _could_ be doing... and, truth be told,
I would be lying if I didn't sometimes find it endearing.
Anthony, I don't think I would be offended at questions like that, from someone I knew or someone I was getting to know.
I'd like to think I have a pretty good filter as to whether someone is being one-dimensional and what the wife calls 'obsessing' over something, or if they're just curious / engaging in conversation.
I have certain family members that I almost never allow in to my home anymore, since they tend to dust, adjust, wipe, move and otherwise rearrange my posessions. It borders on obsessive compulsive, and it gets on my nurves. I'm sure we all have some of those, whether they're family or friends. If a blind person did that, much more notice would be taken of it, I'm sure, but since they're sighted, and they mean well, it's just something we're supposed to deal with... and be greatful for.
I've trained them not to move my things. They know I'm not gonna feel gratitude if it happens.
I've not had anyone come in to my house and move anything. Interesting.
Also, on Anthony's first post, I agree.
I also don't think the sighted person that says it is okay to cross the street things anything like, if they didn't say, you'd stand there until someone does. I think they are just being helpful. Nothing personal.
I've had police offerciers step up and offer assistants. I accept.
One day a lady stepped up and linked her arm through mine and said okay, lets go. No problem
I really don't think people think anything at all but, let me give him or her a hand. Nothing more.
I'm with Wayne, in that sighted people probably don't think anything other than "I wanna help this person," when that's their objective.
For the most part, I've learned not to move stuff that Ed's put down on his
side of the bed, unless it's to dust around it. If I do move or "borrow" his
stuff, I try to put it back in the same location where I found it originally.
I admit that I'm particularly bad about not putting the t.v. remote control
back on his side of the couch after I've stopped watching t.v. during the
day. Usually he'll ask me where I've put it and to find it for him if it's
somewhere obscure that I can't even remember where it's been placed.
When we're bringing something new into the house or changing things
around, I usually let him decide how things should go so that he knows
what to expect... I show him where I'd like something to go and he scopes
the surroundings out and "puts it away" for me in the area that I've chosen
so that he knows where it is and how to deal with it when he looks for
things by himself.
When I lived in a house with my family, I really had no issue with stuff being moved. I just looked for it.
Now that I live alone, knowone comes in to do anything at all, so it just doesn't happen.
I'm a neat freak, so if you find something on the floor, it is because I've accidently dropped it, and haven't found it yet. Otherwise, you'd be hard pressed to find something you felt needed moving. Where are you gonna put it?
You can't move the blender from the kitchen to the living room, because it be out of place, and an easy find.
Soon as I start dusting...
I tought my kids neatness, and my ex wife was the same, so even they put things up.
Now TV remotes just need putting in the spot next to the TV.
We had a TV with a button on it that would cause the remote to beep if you lost it in the couch.
People tell me I'm too laid back, so maybe so. It just doesn't bother me to have to find something.
Sometimes I'll put the t.v. remote on the back of the couch so that it
doesn't fall between the cushions.
I'm usually seated farther away from the t.v. (better viewing angle) and
there's no end table on my side (it would block the doorway into the
lounge), so the back of the couch is the easiest spot for me... it's a
comfortable height and I'm used to having it there, so old habits die hard.
Ed's learned to check there (back of the couch) first before asking what
I've done with it.
I'm getting better at having it where he can find it, but I still have a bit of a
learning curve to conquer.
"One day a lady stepped up and linked her arm through mine and said okay, lets go." Frankly, you're a better man than I am. I would find that offensive. (a) You're invading my space, and seriously so. You don't touch the imperial presence unless you have rights. That means you're either a family, a close friend or a significant other. If I'm standing there minding my own business and you insert yourself into my space, I consider it my right to object. (b) You're making decisions for me without asking. If you ask me if I need assistance, I'll be fine with that, but don't assume and don't decide for me. Unless it's an extreme emergency, I find that sort of thing uncool. Way not cool.
I merely rub my eyes if there's like, an eyelash that feels out of whack or something. And the eyeballs are fake, so I guess they also shift positions.
I agree with Johndy. I don't find it annoying when people ask me blindness related questions or offer me assistance with whatever I'm doing. But when people decide I need assistance or can not do something without consulting me first I literally sea red.
I hate it when people think us blind folks all have enhanced hearing.
so this past wednsday i had an intake interview with the light house of broward. a blind organization deditcated to assist the blind. it was a two hour interview. one of the questions pertains to what we are discussing. i was asked something to the effect if i had some blind mannerisms? i was taken back almost pissed but she quickley said,"no, you dont." me being a smart ass asked what she was talking about. she mentioned the rocking, fingering your eyes and even touching your nose. i will be honest, as a former sighted person i have done some of these things. not the rocking, but touching my ears, nose, chin, tapping my foot, or even using my hands to talk. granted using your hands to communitate is part of the evolution of speech. but perhaps i was being prepared for my moment of blindness?
I thought talking with your hands was a sighted thing. Probably the only time I use my hands to communicate is when I'm describing where something is in space. I've had experiences where I was walking sighted guide and my guide would start talking with someone. I could feel my guide's arms and hands jerking all over the place and hear that their hands sometimes touched almost like they were clapping softly. Talking = communication, but in this case what's being communicated is a total mystery.
Something funny related to hand gestures happened to me in a speech class several years ago. We were supposed to present in front of the class, and one of the teacher's requirements was that we talked with our hands. When I tried to get him to explain what he meant after class, he first said to pretend I was holding a balloon. Naturally, I made my hands into fists one above the other and turned my wrists sideways. He asked, "what are you doing?" He did not sound at all happy or like this is what he had expected me to do. I explained, "I'm holding the string."
He went on to explain it a different way with the help of another blind student. Basically I was supposed to pretend I was holding a basketball (not a balloon full of helium) in both hands and then move one hand and then the other in this motion I don't know how to describe. I don't know how fast, or at what amplitude or anything else. And most importantly, I don't know what I'm saying. I tried to make the funny motion while I gave my presentation, but I had a hard time trying to remember what to say and concentrating on my hands at the same time, so I stopped. I'm so glad computers don't have hands!
Voyager, you make an interesting point. While my sight isn't useful enough to do a job that requires me to use my eyes, I do have enough sight to see when people talk with their hands. Until I read your post, I thought it was just a natural thing to speak with your hands if it acurred to you to do so, like facial expressions. Talking with your hands is a subcontious thing you do when you're explaining something. Some people do, some people don't. I'm surprised your teacher made you do it during your presentation.
I never thought of talking with your hands, but now that you mention it, I do it a little bit.
I love to hear girls with lots of bracelets on talk with their hands. It's almost an audio experience.
Bob
I've noticed it all my life with sighted people, especially when you sit next to them. They'll be talking to someone and at the end of some sentences, you'll hear their hand hit their thigh, maybe even feel it if their arm is close enough.
Hell, I've met sighted people who swing around when they are sitting in a chair.
I think we should just call them habbets because that's what they are. I went blind when I was 3 also so I never rocked or anything. One thing I do is I am always playing with something my hands. Even if its just grasping my hands or tapping or something. Well not always but enough. And what that is is the brain compasating for the loss of a sence. A visual stimuless since hearing and touch have to both play the roll of sight, its important for both of them to be active all the time. Although my habbet isn't as noticeable I think rocking eye poking etc is the simmmalar sort of thing. Sure it may be good to try to cut down on certaint habbets but its a habbet, and blind or sighted we have them. As long as we are human we are going to have them. Finally if a person doesn't have a problem with his-her habbet's why should it bother them what others think? Everyone in this world is a little wierd. In fact to have no habbets, to be 100% completely normal would be creepy and wierd.
I agree. And to have no habits would also mean you had no routines. Routines, like the ones you have to help you prepare for the day before you're fully awake, are kind of automatic like those other habits. Without some ability to perform certain tasks almost automatically, it takes more effort to get things done.